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Libertarian Woman
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23 comments:
it's so nice to see all you Constitutionalists go against your Constitution by denying them their right to free speech.
if you don't by their rules they will get you thrown off of the public land.
i guess this means that "members come from both parties" is dead, huh?
Tshirt,
I believe that demonstrations within a municipality require permits? The people that drew the correct permits to make a statement have a right to have the purity of their statement protected. Nobody in that video said anything about the LaRouche people not having a right to make a statement. They can make a statement in an area that does not infringe on the rights of the original group making their statement.
I showed up at a Tea Party rally with a sign to take liberal scalps. That sign did not represent the statement the Tea Party wanted to make and they asked me to leave. I left. I do not believe my rights were infringed.
If like-minded people want to gather and make a like-minded statement they have a right to govern how that statement is made. I have no right to go in there and infringe on their right to make that statement.
You need to learn some day that your right to swing your fist ends when it threatens to harm me. The First Amendment explicitly states we have a right to assemble. Where in the First Amendment does it say that anyone has a right to disrupt the right to assemble? You also need to review Supreme Court rulings on municipalities and permitting for such events.
It's nice to see you anarchists disregarding permit rules and the rights of a group to not have their message affringed. These other people had the right to go elsewhere to state their message.
This had nothing to do with party, if you had watched the video, it was about hitler signs and impeach obama signs, which the media loves to find and make ALL the tea party look bad.
NO RULES...that's the rule...isn't that watt t-shirt likes to say?????
OTR,
"...have a right to have the purity of their statement protected." so now we're making rights up just like liberals do?
and who wrote this catechism to i have to obey? do i have to buy gold and lift my right hand and swear on a bible to only go by what they say?
Do i have to change my religion? :O)
Auntie Em,
"...rights of a group to not have their message affringed." damn. these never-heard-before rights again. they don't agree with you on their signs so there rights don't mean a thing.
it makes yall look weak. a strong movement would have ignored them. you should have done what anarchists would do. laugh at them, ridicule them, ignore them. i heard one man say "ignore them", but he was ignored. but never call the police. you see, being anti-government is not just a saying to us, unlike the tea baggers.
permit rules? i thought yall were constitutionalists? any permit rules are unconstitutional. read your constitution for me. "Congress shall make no law...freedom of speech...peaceably to assemble and to petition the government". that's quite simple, really. people remember the first part but forget the second part.
"infiltrators". shall i make you a tin foil hat like Ivan's? :O)
buttnekkid,
i never said that. i may sue you for defamation. :O)
There is nothing here that we have said that makes us look weak in anyone's mind but yours because you just want to argue.
There are not just legal rights we are talking about, but common sense, ways that society behaves. Groups have the legal right to include who they wish. Society has people generally observing the right of groups. And the right of assembly does not mean that another group has the societal right to disrupt that assembly.
And NO they should not do what anarchists do because that makes an even bigger confrontation. I certainly would not ridicule them Doc how is that right? They have the right to their opinion so why ridicule? You are not being consistent.
And obviously you do not understand the tea party (tea bagger is just plain ignorant) movement if you think they are ANTI-government. They are small-government, more centered around individuals, local and state. Those same local and state government ARE allowed to make permit rules after a vote by individuals. Procedural law Doc.
Don't be facetious, it doesn't add anything to the debate.
Tshirt,
I tell you what. Every time you send out something to say, I will jump in there and alter it the way I like, attribute it to you, and send it on.
Do not worry your little head. I will make certain to include comments about your intent to do harm to the president, plans to put bombs in various places, your intentions to do harm to millions of people using biological weapons. And all of this will be your statement because, according to you, I have the right to just jump in, and alter your statement the way I think would be best for you.
I will not change your mind and you will not change my mind. Keep your attitude just the way you like it. Walk into the middle of a bunch of people having a Martin Luther King march, yell "Die Ni__er," wear swastikas, and tell me how that turns out for you.
A municipality has a duty to provide a forum for peaceful demonstrations and protect the safety of the citizens both participating and not.
Autie Em,
no, it makes you look weak because you got your big brother (the police) to kick your equals out of the park.
i thought this was a grass movement coalition with all parties being welcome?
"Groups have the legal right to include who they wish."
your right there. except when they are on public ground.
"...disrupt that assembly"
just by being there? the tea partiers disrupted their assembly.
"...I certainly would not ridicule them Doc how is that right? They have the right to their opinion so why ridicule? You are not being consistent."
they have a right to their opinion even as their arrested for sharing ours. talk about not being consistent.
and i like how you're not going into that ignore theme. that would have made the disruption negligible, but that's not what they wanted.
OTR,
what are you talking about? did you get another youtube video where that was going on, or are you desperate enough to make up stuff just to make the other side look bad?
i like how you "constitutionalanists" will deny other people of their constitutional rights to "...the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances."
You would have liked it better if we had just started a big brawl right there huh? That's mature.
So matter how you spin it Doc, you forget how the media loves to catch someone in the tea party with racist signs, hitler signs, etc. That is NOT what the tea party is about so why should they allow these people to hang around making it look like their ideals are represented by this particular tea party? There are more than one, why the socialists can go find their own.
These people did not share the ideals of the tea party so why include them? Just to make a few anarchists feel better? Is that all you are concerned about?
Hell, let's get some skin heads in there, would that make you feel better?
That's stupid, really, it is. Not calling you personally stupid, but that thought process is stupid, non-productive and just argumentative.
Of course everyone has the right to protest, just don't attach your "purpose" onto another groups purpose. If another group tried to do that to you anarchists you wouldn't like it any more so don't be hypocritical. You guys would have kicked their butts out. Never seen an anarchist that could just "ignore" anyone.
Tshirt,
"OTR,
what are you talking about? did you get another youtube video where that was going on, or are you desperate enough to make up stuff just to make the other side look bad?"
Can you point to what you are questioning? Please quote the text.
Tshirt,
I am trying to understand your point. Maybe you can help by explaining something.
Let us assume that you want to have a demonstration on George Washington Bridge, Monday morning, during rush hour into New York City. You have 5,000 people to come with you and all of you sit down on the bridge making it impossible for anyone to cross the bridge going in either direction, walking or driving a car. You organize the participants to support doing this for a week.
Do you feel that this is your right of free speech and freedom to assemble to do this? If you and the other 5,000 people demonstrating with you are arrested by officers carrying shields, brandishing guns and batons, then this would be a violation of your rights?
Auntie Em,
can you read? didn't i say that you should have ignored them? like that man said on the video. that was a mature man. but he was over written by the teenage brains around him.
"you forget how the media loves to catch someone in the tea party with racist signs,"
then you go after the media. not they guys holding the signs. but that's not in your playbook. instead of going after the real problems we'll just add reforms after reforms ad infinitum.
"Hell, let's get some skin heads in there, would that make you feel better?"
using your thought processes i would say tea partiers are like the guy who flew his plane into the IRS building in texas.
please don't show your ignorance.
i can guarantee you that anarchists wouldn't have kicked them out. you see anarchists are peaceful people. we don't like the coercive State, why should we act like it?
but if we wanted them gone we would do it ourselves, and not hide behind the mommy-skirts of law enforcement.
the whole world has the wrong opinions of anarchists due to government controlled propaganda. we're used to it now.
OTR,
"And all of this will be your statement because, according to you, I have the right to just jump in, and alter your statement the way I think would be best for you."
where did i say that?
where is this video that has the democrats doing that? because i didn't see that from the video supplied here. i think you're paranoid beyond reason.
all i can see is a bunch of constitution lovers denying some other group of the constitutional rights.
I don't think YOU are reading Doc! And it's because of the media giving a bad impression of the group that these people were kicked out. Why "go after" them? They have a right to their opinion too remember? Just take it away from the tea party.
What is so hard about understanding that?
And I've seen what your anarchists groups do to people they disagree with, aka Oakland, G8, etc.
Here are your words:
"but if we wanted them gone we would do it ourselves, and not hide behind the mommy-skirts of law enforcement.
the whole world has the wrong opinions of anarchists due to government controlled propaganda. we're used to it now."
If you wanted these people gone you would do it yourselves. And how is that? You think they would leave just because you "ridicule" them? No, it would have turned into a fight and you know that.
Do you even know what you are arguing about? You are not making any sense.
Do you deny this group was there for any other purpose than to make the tea party look like the racist, Obama-haters that the media claim they are?
Again, they are small government not anti-government, don't skip over that. You don't like police, that is your problem. I'll take their help if they are available to help. That also is our right now isn't it?
This socialist group would have been a detriment to the message the tea party was endeavoring to present. So why allow them to participate? They can have their own. Why didn't they? That wasn't their purpose.
You are being hypocritical and you don't even see it.
Tshirt,
"OTR,
'And all of this will be your statement because, according to you, I have the right to just jump in, and alter your statement the way I think would be best for you.'
where did i say that?"
When you asserted that the LaRouche people had the right to go into a Tea Party assembly and high jack it for their own purposes. The LaRouche people wanted to alter the Tea Party statement and portray the Tea Party people as making a Hitlerian portrayal of Obama (by the way, I find that to be very accurate but the Tea Party people do not want to make that statement).
You look at that situation and play the dumb-ass. I noticed that you did not touch on my comment about demonstrating on the Washington Bridge for a very good reason. You know full well that permits are required for demonstrations in municipalities and that has been upheld by the Supreme Court.
Like I said before, if you want to have an assembly in a municipality you need to pull a permit. Bottom line, the Tea Party people did everything right. The LaRouche people went in there to high-jack their assembly and did everything wrong. You want to treat me like some stupid ass, like an idiot, and a liar then take your filthy anarchist ass and go jump off a cliff. You are the reason I hate liberals and anarchists. You are all the same. You think that rules apply to everyone but yourself. You are selfish and narcissistic just like all anarchists. These rules exist to provide for peaceful assembly and just like all anarchists you think that you have the right to jump in there and change their assembly into something of your own choosing.
Did you notice that the officer directed the LaRouche people to another location to have their own assembly even though they did not pull a permit? Did you notice in New York City that the pro-Mosque group and the anti-Mosque group are separated? They are not allowed to mingle together. It is two different assemblies. The Constitution does not give your stupid anarchist ass the right to invade or break up the peaceful assembly of someone else. But then again, if the person is an anarchist then they can do whatever they want because you are superior to everyone else and some great God has given you that blessing.
So, play your anarchist victim/superiority egotistical BS somewhere else. Drop dead so I can dance on your grave.
Auntie Em,
if only they had rented out a private property :O)
"Just take it away from the tea party. "
that's why i have a problem with that. where do you get the right to do that?
how many anarchists were there battling the police at the G8 conference? 50? that was from all over the country. the other band of anarchists, 99%, marching peacefully.
you ARE a bunch of Obama-haters that the media claim they are!
"I do not agree with what you have to say, but I'll defend to the death your right to say it."
Voltaire
"the right to offend is far more important than any right not to be offended"
OTR,
hijack? they weren't in the main area. they had a table set up and were receiving donations and i guess handing out LaRouche propagana. they main people were just going left to right with somebody yelling "keep moving, everybody, keep moving...".
that's where it should have ended.
"The LaRouche people wanted to alter the Tea Party statement and portray the Tea Party people as making a Hitlerian portrayal of Obama..."
that picture of hitler/obama was seen at many tea party events before. don't threaten people with arrest what you've been doing before.
"I noticed that you did not touch on my comment about demonstrating on the Washington Bridge for a very good reason."
that's because it didn't make any sense. a march is not the same thing a setting up a table at a free rally. free? not so for everyone.
"Supreme Court"
yeah, there's been no un-Constitutional law that was declared Constitutional. yeah, right.
"You think that rules apply to everyone but yourself."
that's right. especially un-Constitutional ones. "The Congress shall make no law...".
"These rules exist to provide for peaceful assembly and just like all anarchists you think that you have the right to jump in there and change their assembly into something of your own choosing."
where has that happened? let me guess, nowhere, yet. anarchists are always outnumbered 1000 to 1. i'm sure that the Tea Partiers will be dancing on there graves.
"Did you notice that the officer directed the LaRouche people to another location to have their own assembly"
so you like "free speech zones". that's mighty Constitutionalist of you.
"But then again, if the person is an anarchist then they can do whatever they want because you are superior to everyone else and some great God has given you that blessing."
your ignorance astounding me. we are fighting the ones who feel they are superior, the statist class.
"Drop dead so I can dance on your grave."
is that the Tea Party manifesto right there? we are debating Constitution issues right here and a Tea Party member wishes i was dead.
OTR,
hijack? they weren't in the main area. they had a table set up and were receiving donations and i guess handing out LaRouche propagadna. they main people were just going left to right with somebody yelling "keep moving, everybody, keep moving...".
that's where it should have ended.
"The LaRouche people wanted to alter the Tea Party statement and portray the Tea Party people as making a Hitlerian portrayal of Obama..."
that picture of hitler/obama was seen at many tea party events before. don't threaten people with arrest what you've been doing before. you statement has already been altered the moment it was released. don't use that petty excuse.
"I noticed that you did not touch on my comment about demonstrating on the Washington Bridge for a very good reason."
that's because i didn't see it until now. i wouldn't do that because the right to travel freely is one of those natural laws that i will not break. i noticed you didn't touch "all i can see is a bunch of constitution lovers denying some other group of the constitutional rights."
"Supreme Court"
yeah, there's been no un-Constitutional law that was declared Constitutional. yeah, right.
"You think that rules apply to everyone but yourself."
that's right. especially un-Constitutional ones. "The Congress shall make no law...".
"These rules exist to provide for peaceful assembly and just like all anarchists you think that you have the right to jump in there and change their assembly into something of your own choosing."
where has that happened? let me guess, nowhere, yet. anarchists are always outnumbered 1000 to 1. i'm sure that the Tea Partiers will be dancing on there graves.
"Did you notice that the officer directed the LaRouche people to another location to have their own assembly"
so you like "free speech zones". that's mighty Constitutionalist of you.
"But then again, if the person is an anarchist then they can do whatever they want because you are superior to everyone else and some great God has given you that blessing."
your ignorance astounding me. we are fighting the ones who feel they are superior, the statist class.
"Drop dead so I can dance on your grave."
is that the Tea Party manifesto right there? we are debating Constitution issues right here and a Tea Party member wishes i was dead.
OTR,
hijack? they weren't in the main area. they had a table set up and were receiving donations and i guess handing out LaRouche propagadna. they main people were just going left to right with somebody yelling "keep moving, everybody, keep moving...".
that's where it should have ended.
"The LaRouche people wanted to alter the Tea Party statement and portray the Tea Party people as making a Hitlerian portrayal of Obama..."
that picture of hitler/obama was seen at many tea party events before. don't threaten people with arrest what you've been doing before. you statement has already been altered the moment it was released. don't use that petty excuse.
"I noticed that you did not touch on my comment about demonstrating on the Washington Bridge for a very good reason."
that's because i didn't see it until now. i wouldn't do that because the right to travel freely is one of those natural laws that i will not break. i noticed you didn't touch "all i can see is a bunch of constitution lovers denying some other group of the constitutional rights."
"Supreme Court"
yeah, there's been no un-Constitutional law that was declared Constitutional. yeah, right.
"You think that rules apply to everyone but yourself."
that's right. especially un-Constitutional ones. "The Congress shall make no law...".
"These rules exist to provide for peaceful assembly and just like all anarchists you think that you have the right to jump in there and change their assembly into something of your own choosing."
where has that happened? let me guess, nowhere, yet. anarchists are always outnumbered 1000 to 1. i'm sure that the Tea Partiers will be dancing on there graves.
"Did you notice that the officer directed the LaRouche people to another location to have their own assembly"
so you like "free speech zones". that's mighty Constitutionalist of you.
"But then again, if the person is an anarchist then they can do whatever they want because you are superior to everyone else and some great God has given you that blessing."
your ignorance astounding me. we are fighting the ones who feel they are superior, the statist class.
"Drop dead so I can dance on your grave."
is that the Tea Party manifesto right there? we are debating Constitution issues right here and a Tea Party member wishes i was dead.
Tshirt,
"is that the Tea Party manifesto right there? we are debating Constitution issues right here and a Tea Party member wishes i was dead."
Again and again, you do not listen to me. Last time I am telling you. I am not a member of the Tea Party. They do not go far enough to satisfy me. That is MY VIEW. You are so much like the media. Immediately attribute someone on the outside of an assembly to that assembly because it suits YOUR anarchist agenda.
I provided you with a perfect example of what you said was your right to speech and assemble on Washington Bridge. You said that was ridiculous, then you turn around and state that it is ridiculous for a municipality to provide a mechanism for orderly assembly. You anarchists are all the same. You remorph your discussion constantly to suit some upper hand. Yes, I get it. Anarchists are superior and elitists and concede nothing. Exactly why they should be wiped out.
Tshirt,
Let me give you a second shot at this and demonstrate a point.
You believe, as an anarchist, that your rights are superior to the rights of others. You and some of your anarchist friends decide to demonstrate out by little farm at 3am. Your right to assemble. You have Jesse Jackson bull horns and Al Sharpron prostitutes with you just to heat things up a little.
All you and your anarchist friends get out in front of my house chanting "Death to Indians, Death to Indians." Free Speech!
Within a few minutes, I come from out of nowhere and I gun all of you down with my Thompson. My Second Amendment right. All of you die.
Thirty days later, the Grand Jury returns a No Bill. All charges are dropped. Wow, you mean an anarchist does not have the right to assemble and free speech anywhere of their choosing?!?!?!??!
As an anarchist, you believe that private property is contrary to an egalitarian society. And since there are no restrictions on any rights, you should be able to go anywhere and say anything. You anarchists think that you are superior and should be able to take everything you want.
Well, guess what. At the end of that tunnel is ME. And I have a gun. And since you anarchists believe that your rights are superior to mine then I will use everything that I have to destroy you.
That is what you get with an anarchist society.
Doc, why should they rent out a private property when they can get a permit for a public? Same issue would exist, someone shows up who is trying to make them look bad.
You keep saying "that's where it should have ended". It is not up to you to decide that. You know very well the media would have taken pictures of them and lumped them in with the tea party crowd. The tea partiers are trying to reach people and politicians, they want their message to be taken seriously, not diminished by some socialist bullcrap.
No we nor they are NOT Obama haters. I hate his agenda. Don't know the man personally. Not for you to decide who I hate.
That picture being seen at previous tea parties is exactly WHY they wanted to get rid of it. They have asked them to leave before, this time just happened to get filmed. So don't you act like this is normal, cause you don't have a clue.
Your opposition to this doesn't make sense. We've stated over ad nauseum the socialist group has a right to their free speech as well as the tea party people. This kind of gathering in this place requires a permit, if you don't like that, take it up with the local government.
If someone is infringing on your message you have the right to make sure other people do not associate them with your message. Most civil people use civil ways to do this.
These LaRouche people did not care about exercising free speech and you fell for it.
I think I got your extra posts deleted Doc. Hard to tell, you are really starting to ramble.
Auntie Em,
I remember a wise man saying something about arguing with an idiot. Butt's words may be wise to follow.
By the way, trying to work up the patience to watch "Food, Inc." I will probably have to be heavily sedated for that one.
Thank you for turning me on to Netflix. New ways to elevate my blood pressure.... Grrrrrr.
i was rambling because i was answering your rambling comments. :O)
you know me, if you say anything but "no taxes" you can't call yourself a libertarian. i'm the same way with the Constitution.
i still love ya!!!!
p.s. i still love you too, OTR! please bring flowers to my grave :O)
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