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Now that the legal mumbo jumbo is outta the way...

Tuesday, November 10, 2009

Think outside the box

Did you know that the states, without any input from either part of Congress, has the constitutional right to enact Amendments to the Constitution? There are two methods to amend the Constitution.

From the Constitution:

Article V - Amendment

The Congress, whenever two thirds of both Houses shall deem it necessary, shall propose Amendments to this Constitution, or, on the Application of the Legislatures of two thirds of the several States, shall call a Convention for proposing Amendments, which, in either Case, shall be valid to all Intents and Purposes, as part of this Constitution, when ratified by the Legislatures of three fourths of the several States, or by Conventions in three fourths thereof, as the one or the other Mode of Ratification may be proposed by the Congress; Provided that no Amendment which may be made prior to the Year One thousand eight hundred and eight shall in any Manner affect the first and fourth Clauses in the Ninth Section of the first Article; and that no State, without its Consent, shall be deprived of its equal Suffrage in the Senate.


The second method, application of the legislatures of two thirds of the several states, has never been used.

The President has no veto power over this method. Infact no politicians currently in Washington need be involved at all!!!!!!!!!!!

Can you imagine, just try, if the states as a group were to decide to nullify all non-constitutional acts taken by Congress in the last 100 years!!!!!!!!!! Eliminate income tax. Eliminate Social Security tax and return the care of the elderly and infirm to the state control. Eliminate the Department of Education, return the education of our children to the state and local level with direct involvement of parents.

Return the selection of Senators to the state legislature where it was designed by the founding fathers.

Our states were designed to operate as their own soverign entities. As Reagan said "you can always vote with your feet" but with the federal government making all our decisions and governing, hell RULING every aspect of business, education, where and how we live, there is no longer any difference between states. This separation of states was the entire reason for the Declaration of Independence leading to the Revolutionary War and also why we fought a second war, the Civil War.

We like the diversity of our states, Texas is different than New York. North Carolina is different than Oregon. We would like to keep it that way.

So I ask again, can you imagine.....

Think about it, you will be hearing more about this as many states are indeed, considering this action.

13 comments:

J Cooper said...

I tried it (Thinking outside the box),I like it.Just a couple of questions?

1)Eliminate income tax,if done,now do we fund the military.

2)Eliminate Social Security tax,if done,what happens to all the folks that have paid into this all their life's. I'm 57 and have paid into this for 40 years,that just doesn't seem fair.I'd be all for it, if they would return everything that I've paid into it.That would be a chunk of change,but that ain't going to happen.

Last but not least,Thank you Joyce, for posting this and tweaking my brain. The best part was the link to the CONSTITUTION on the web.I feel so stupid,I've been walking around with that little paper back copy in my back pocket for the last year. Silly me,welcome to the 20th century.

BUTT NECKID,don't even say it!!
Shuuuuuut Uuuuuup

Auntie Em/Libertarian Woman said...

Eggcellent questions and I have thought about those. We had a military before the income tax ever existed, so we need to do some research as to how they were supported.

The social security issue would have to be resolved with a phase in approach. The numbers folks with bigger brains than I have already been working on at what age is it better to stop making contributions and keep your money, I think that age was somewhere around 40 so you and I would either be in the group to be paid out of a frozen account (no more congressional raiding) or get a one time settlement. There were several scenarios working back when Bush proposed having the option to switch to a privatized account. So this is not new territory for Washington, but it's probably one that scared the beejeebers outta them.

And even with the link to the constitution I still keep my copy too!!! I especially like that web version, it has more notes and references, makes it very easy to do research.

I think I originally heard this idea from Judge Napolitano outta the corner of my ear and dashed into the office to look up Article IV. Post this around, people need to be thinking about this cause there may just be a push in this direction.

butt neckid said...

whaa???? huh???? I dint say nuttin'.....butt............

item 1.....there were taxes on certain items b4 income tax......

item 2.....would you be willing to sacrifice some of what you paid in to get a major part back?????.........you do kno' the the socsec money is being spent a lil' faster than it comes in.....so it's a deficet(?) spending ponze skeem....you don't have any money there....but if you could get back 60% of the amount that you faithfully deposited (at gubmint gun point) would you be happy?????? and where does that repayment come from????

now last butt not least......sorry in advance...constitution??.....we don't need no stinkin'konstitution!

butt with a lil' work outside of the stinkin' cat litter box we the peeple could do some REAL good stuff and git rid of scumsuckin' politicians.....without wastin' ammo.......

butt neckid said...

I am a realist and I want to point out a cuppla things that will come under fire......the threat is

cut off highway funds from feds.....maybe but they are part of the national security measures....

WELFARE!!!.....don't fo' git dem po' fo'k.........

hahahahah...skool funds....hahahahaha...po' union fo'k......

there are more things on the list these are the ones that jumped out for me......

whaadaa ya tink????

Auntie Em/Libertarian Woman said...

I think the way SS is collapsing, we'll be lucky to get any percentage back of what we paid in. I'd settle for a lump sum and an ending of the deductions from my paycheck!

If we got a convention through hopefully forcing the fed to do their job would be included. That would prevent any blackmail of withholding federal funds especially if we end income tax they won't have any funds to withhold!

Will this all come about? Probably not, but we could use it as a weapon to bring the federal government back under control.

We The People said...

LW...good post.

I think the FairTax is definitely the way to go and by giving more control to states and individuals as prescribed in the Constitution, then the Fairtax could be reduced significantly.

Also, prior to the income tax, most revenues were derived from tariffs on imports. If Washington would have the guts to level the playing field on trade, we could have a sustantial amount of revenue. However, since so much of our debt is held by unfair trading partners, it is a Catch-22.

Stupid Washington!

LiberalHater said...

I have only one point to make to J Cooper's post. I can answer this very simply. As of right now, all income and payroll taxes that are collected by the Federal Government equals the amount of money we pay The Federal Reserve System to sustain the debt. That means every penny that is taken from you either in income or social security taxes, is used to keep the national debt where it is.

Therefore, eliminating income taxes and social security taxes isn't going to affect the spending on the military or your social security regardless.

Warbler said...

The idea of having such a convention has been tossed around before. It sounds like a great idea, but can also be extremely dangerous. Anyone, with enough support, could propose any idea that could eventually become an Amendment. This would be a populist movement, and many groups with major backing by wealthy donors could take over the convention. We could very well wind up with many things conservatives do NOT want. Correct me if I am wrong, but I don't believe there are many restrictions in this matter.

A reread of the original Constitution ending with the 10th Amendment should reveal no need for any changes, provided of course that the contract is enforced. The founding fathers never envisioned an enforcement agency to ensure the Constitution was followed. At that time, the States had not lost their identity and indepedence, and served their proper role as watchdogs of the People.
But after the War Between the States, and the total destruction of the South, almost everyone forgot that the issue of states rights had never been legally changed from that which the Southern states had used against the Federal government. The haunting memories of all that was lost, and simple survival of the new war fighting infiltration and confiscation by the carpet baggers drove all thought of the issue from most Southerners' minds. And the precedents of federal atrocities was accepted as a matter of course by the victorious North, who assumed most of the power grab was in the South. But not so. They also sold themselves into a new kind of slavery, by the very Union they supported against the South.
But the time is ripe again. A constitutional convention could very well be viable under some circumstances, if for no other purpose than to recind several of our existing Amendments. However, the assertion of power by the States must be our foremost thought, and the most effective ways to do so.
We must have governors who understand the breadth of their constitutional powers, and the courage to make a stand for their state. And we must elect and MONITOR our local representatives, never letting them forget who has the true power. Government from the bottom up, just as envisioned by the founders.

Auntie Em/Libertarian Woman said...

I like the questions coming out here, this is stirring up our thinking! This option has never been tried before, there are a lot of opinions written on the pros and cons but if we did do this, we would pretty much write the rules ourselves. I imagine after each state chooses it's representatives for the convention, they would all have to agree on procedure. At that point an agreement I think would have to be reached before any vote as to the scope. This wouldn't be flung wide open as many panicked people have suggested, or no vote would ever result in anything getting done.

Remember, they have to have 3/4 agreement on any amendment, so that would almost guarantee no partisan politics.

Warbler, we do have an "enforcer" of the constitution but they have fallen down on the job and that is the Supreme Court. They have the ability to petition themselves to review constitutionality of issues, such as Justice Thomas when he petitioned his colleagues regarding Obama's birth certificate. They don't have to wait for someone to bring them a case. But they are sitting on their hands, ignoring all around them.

Auntie Em/Libertarian Woman said...

Thanks for the info WTP, glad you stopped by!

LiberalHater said...

I was just thinking this morning what life would be like today if Ron Paul, Rand Paul, Peter Schiff, Thomas Jefferson, James Madison, John Adams, and Ray McBerry were on the U.S. Supreme Court at the same time. How do you think they would rule on this matter?

Tim said...

We need to repeal the 17th amendment and return the selection of senators to the state legislatures.

Think about it, a bi-cameral congress was established for a reason. The house of representatives is apportioned by population and is elected by the people as their direct representatives. That is why the house of representatives is called the "peoples' house."

The senate, is supposed to represent the state government in the federal system. The senate was supposed to be insulated from the "whims" of the people. The senate was always the more deliberative body and a backstop to the "crazy" actions of the house. The senate is also supposed to check the power of the executive ie advise and consent for appointees, etc.

This is lost with popularly elected senators. They have now become house members that serve a longer term. They are no longer answerable to the state's governor or its legislature. They can no longer perform their constitutional function.

butt neckid said...

TIM...........your post 11/23 just makes my point as clear as glass.....

politicians are scum.....

they get involved in the way senators are put in place and see what WE wind up with......

getting out of the litter box is a grrrrrrrrreat idea......butt like all good ideas.....ain't gonna happen....there aren't enuff of US....unless we use force multipliers....30 cal, .45, 30.06.....as much as I dread it a revolution is gonna happen....and who ya gonna call??

who is a leader we can follow?? I can't think of anyone......