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Now that the legal mumbo jumbo is outta the way...

Thursday, February 18, 2010

Did Joe Stack target the IRS?

By now you've heard about the person who is being accused of deliberately flying his plane into a building housing an IRS office, Austin TX


(right click)

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,586581,00.html

http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/years/2010/0218102stack1.html

And of course, the libs are already calling him a right wing nut:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x7740196

This on the announcement of the "Online Tax Revolt", timing could not be worse. This will be used against this movement, watch and see. I'm linking to the story in Boortz for now, the website is not up and running just yet.

One thing I want to get straight: This guy was a nut job. He is not a hero, not a patriot. He had some rough spots, made some bad decisions which didn't help his situation.

None of which gives ANYONE the right to kill. I hope no ideological group claims him, we all need to distance ourselves and write this incident off as a lone event of a mentally unbalanced person.

51 comments:

Jen said...

Heck yeah he did. Did you read his website? The dude had issues!

butt neckid said...

why did we all ax the same kwestion at the same time???????

where's OTR??????

so joe was pissed and had lost hope for change....there will be more of this......

butt neckid said...

on second thought......

where's IVAN?????

was it an inside job????

was bush involved????

Auntie Em/Libertarian Woman said...

LOL! Hey Jen glad to see you still stop by.

That letter I've seen is very weird indeed! It would have taken me so long to write something like he did that I would have been over my mad spell.

Well maybe not after all the money he owed...

Auntie Em/Libertarian Woman said...

Ivan was the first one to send post this story. He's been on Boortz since it happened, sorry BN, can't hang it on him.

Every one on Boortz has been asking where is OTR.

butt neckid said...

sawed it.....

butt neckid said...

soooo let's put this together.....

OTR has knowledge of electricity/electronics.....

IVAN has aliens (green peeple) in his basement that have experience with flight controls..and IVAN is highly mobile, staying one or two steps ahead of the black suv's....

they both have access to the bunker and all that secret stuff we got down there.......

TSHIRT is just paranoid enuff to make a great lookout.....

JCOOPER owns a soldering iron....

okay which one of you is CIA????

aaaaaaaaw crap don't tell me.......




















c

off the reservation said...

I started posting here at 10:30 this morning! Actually down one of the earlier threads in this Blog. The one titled "Road Trip" and the congrats to Butt. I posted right after I saw the smoke out the window!

off the reservation said...

In answer to Butt's earlier question, I have a lot of time on an O-2

Ivan said...

I predicted yesterday on the Boortz forum that a terror attack was coming extremely soon that would involve people associated with the Tea Party movement or Truthers or Birthers. I had no clue it would happen the very next day. Alex Jones specifically said that there would soon be a false flag terror attack in Austin Texas.

off the reservation said...

This is what I posted earlier:

Read his letter:

http://i2.cdn.turner.com/cnn/2010/images/02/18/stack.letter.pdf?hpt=T1

Wow, good argument for the FairTax.

Something to consider, do we all really understand full well what it is we are signing when we sign that tax form? The immense tax code behind it that we state that we have followed to the letter of the law?

I am reminded of a gentleman in San Jose who had a software company. When it went public, neither he nor his co-founders could sell their stock. At the IPO, his worth became almost $20million. He could not sell any of his stock due to restrictions from the SEC (laws regarding insider trading,etc) and the firm handling the IPO. By the time he could sell the stock, the value was around $500thousand. After an IRS audit and the games that can go on under the tax code, he owed about $8million in taxes due to the IPO event. He owed $8million on something that he was powerless to sell when it was worth $20million. The IRS wanted his house, which was mortgaged for his startup. The IRS wanted everything.

Result, he was found laying in a pool of his own blood, hand gun next to him, facing bankruptcy. That, my friends, is how our government rewards success.

CNN claims this man was rambling. The average person, never having owned their own business, never having written a business plan, never having composed a technical plan, never having faced an investment board, would never have a clue. Journalists never have a clue.

Auntie Em/Libertarian Woman said...

OH you are right, it was OTR, not Ivan. Ivan posted about South Carolina banning federal currency.

MY BAD!!!!

Forgive me?

Auntie Em/Libertarian Woman said...

butt, gonna have to put you out now that you have blown my cover

off the reservation said...

Auntie Em,

Not a problem! Today was a source of excitement for many in Austin. There is a considerable amount of liberal work to make this a right wing tea bagger terrorist deal.

Butt has brought it up. Expect there to be more rumbling about controlling access to aircraft.

There are IRS offices in several places in town.

Auntie Em/Libertarian Woman said...

He sounded just as mad at the left as the right so the libs need to back off, this guy does not belong to anyone.

But as Rahm would say.... something about crisis????

off the reservation said...

Crisis? Yep, Rahmbo is dragging out his dead fish and newspapers. Opportunities ahead on this one.

I could write volumes on the IRS. Every IRS encounter can be easily summed up in 30 or 40 pages of legal-eeze. Maybe I should spend some time relating a few of my encounters, if it is possible? I am audited about every other year.

off the reservation said...

IRS Audits

First off, if you just get a W-2 every year and maybe a 1099-DIV or two, you fill out your 1040-EZ, none of what I have to say here will ever make any sense to you. Chances are, you will never see an IRS agent your whole life.

I do not have any of the following: LLC, LLP, S Corp, C Corp. I am "simply" a "dba" or "doing business as" type arrangement. I have an agri business, heavy construction business, firearms training, and consult to high-tech. I believe in diversification. I cannot sit idle for more than five minutes.

To the IRS, I am a training arena for new agents. At my expense, through my attorney, and with my CPA, I train IRS agents in how understand the volumes and volumes of IRS Code. If you are successful at what you do and put people to work then the IRS paints a target on your back and throws darts at you. If a business you are working on fails then the IRS brings out the nuclear arsenal.

Word Verification: gunminas

off the reservation said...

IRS Audit: Bankrupt Business

More than 15 years ago, I worked for a startup that went bankrupt. ADP did our payroll. ADP did not get paid for processing our last series of paychecks. ADP got mad and decided to take it out on the employees in violation of the order from the bankruptcy judge.

Unless you have been to a bankruptcy court as a "class" arguing before a federal judge, you will never understand the legal expenses involved. This is not small claims court and getting justice comes at a very HIGH premium.

ADP refused to file paperwork with the IRS. According to the Trustee of the bankrupt company, ADP filed and paid with the Federal Bank our last quarter's payroll tax deductions, Social Security Tax, and Medicare Tax.

Two years later, all of the employees were audited by the IRS. According to the IRS, none of those payroll taxes were ever paid. Because I could not prove ADP did what they were supposed to do and because the IRS refused to take the letter from the Trustee as evidence, I had to pay all of those monies to the IRS, PLUS penalties, PLUS interest.

Do I feel bad that some IRS agents got hurt in that blast yesterday....

HELL NO!

They chose to work for the IRS.

off the reservation said...

Anti-Tax Movement

I am noticing how quickly the following are being lumped into the so-called "anti-tax" movement:

Tea Party
FairTax
Flat Tax
TechServe Alliance

The Southern Poverty Law Center appears to be focused on portraying anyone that objects to the current tax code as an "anti-tax" movement militia member.

I am also sitting in here listening to some of the remarks from these liberals. It is not the case that I believe taxes should not be paid. It is the case that everyone deserves to be a part of the system (everybody pays) and that the code should be uncomplicated and specific.

The tax code that we have today is partisan. It has favored groups in it. People in some groups are more favored groups of citizens. Other groups are enslaved to pay large amounts of taxes to support the favored groups. The current tax code also penalizes innovations in working arrangements that impact productivity.

When I start to talk to a liberal, the only part that I can get out is that we need to repeal the current internal revenue code. Before I can even mention another system these people start branding me a hard core militia member.

off the reservation said...

IRS Audit: Business vs Hobby

Allegedly, there are guidelines. In reality, depends on the agent and willingness to go to court.

Start up a business to do road building. Can be augmented with work on small on-site water treatment plants (another name for that septic system in your back yard). Just team up with a licensed plumber. Heck, even delivered ornamental rock. Miss the timing on the market and your pucker factor can really play havoc on you.

First three years of this venture was a loss. Bad judgment on my part. But it was a business. I even tried to readjust (adding septic systems) to pick up other work until I could get more road work. Wound up with an IRS agent that called it a hobby.

A slight foot note here. A brand new track loader costs about $250,000. Might get a nice used one for $200,000. Grader, all this equipment you see at a road building site. Most of that stuff in the 6-digit figures, APIECE!

Spent money on an attorney and demonstrated willingness (as in available money) to go to court. Finally prevailed and was profitable in my fourth year. Profitable for a number of years since until I laid off my help last year when the market died.

I am just amazed at how much stuff I accumulated by the time I turned 60. Also amazed at how much of a judgment call it is when it comes to hobby vs business.

J Cooper said...

No Butt,I won't be doing battle with a soldering iron,although it may work well in an interrogation room,Am I sick or what???

After reading Joe's manifesto twice,yes twice,I'm a little slow,borderline Dumbass.

It seems that he was not much different than any of use. It appears he was a hard worker,from what I can tell,he was not a moocher,he simply was at the end of his rope and had taken all he could take.He simply lost his shit.For Joe,it was simply time to stand up to the system he saw as unfair and unjust.I do not disagree with him.Would I have done it differently?? I do everyday...

Yes OTR,I understand what you're talking about. I know the IRS rather well,and they know me rather well also. In the last 20 years, I have been audited 3 times,not as many as yourself,but I learned my lessons the hard way and I learned them well!!! The second time I had the pleasure of working with the IRS,it was a full blown line by line audit.This is the best they have to offer,you're required to prove everything line be line. You're name is so and so,prove it. You're married to so and so,prove it.You work for so and so, prove it.You got two kids and a dog,prove it.It took me three trips home ,to get documentation,before I realized I was in deep shit. They already knew everything about me,they knew things that I had long forgotten.
Its not as most people think,You're number comes up,they call you in,you dance around with them,and its over. Not so.
You're number comes up,you're case is given to an agent. The agent studies and researches your case for maybe months before you are ever contacted. They already know the answers to all the questions long before you even know whats going on.

Was Joe a nut case,maybe not.Did Joe handle it wrong,a real big YES. You see,I love life to much,I love breathing in air and spewing out CO2. My wife,family and friends keep me in check.Joe appears not to have had to much of a support group to keep him in check, real big mistake. Do I feel sorry for him, yes. Do I condone what he did,no.But I do understand it somewhat.. RIP JOE,hopefully he can rest now.

off the reservation said...

Joseph Stack: Religion, Politics, And?

I have seen a posted pic of this guy playing a guitar. Asking around, he was in a band here. A real easy-going instrumentalist. I think that this was the band he was in:

http://www.billyeli.com/

A number of his postings were anti-corporation.

He seems to have a dislike for the Church.

The news organizations seem to be backing off of the story very quickly. If this man was a "Tea Party" member, I sincerely doubt that Tiger Woods would be front page today. Willing to bet that Tiger was praying he was a member of the Tea Party movement.

Is this guy, Stack, liberal? Libertarian? Conservative?

off the reservation said...

Coop,

I really hope we make it.

I hope Joe has found his peace.

off the reservation said...

Had to sit in the coffee shop more as things took a turn to the surreal in Austin. YOU WILL NOT READ THIS IN THE MEDIA!

This morning, many people were just certain that it was a discontented tea bagger that slammed their plane into that building (yes, I was at fault yesterday for concluding that it was a Muslim terrorist). Many Austin people were certain that this was just a by-product of the blissful city of Austin being surrounded by the horrible Republican/Tea Bagger state of Texas. Many Austin liberals were angry that with a house and a plane he could not just pay his taxes.

Now it is afternoon. As I followed the threads on the various bands here in Austin I started to find out the horrible little dark truth in this city.

Then about 3pm a journalist from the Austin American Statesman (I prefer to call the Austin Spaceman) got on the local talk radio. Here is what happened (I am paraphrasing what he said as I was driving):

AAS Journalist: It was very hard to come to work today as a man that I knew had driven that plane into the Echolon Bldg on Research Blvd.

Later....

AAS Journalist: I was somewhat relieved that the Tiger Woods story came out today and I could get some relief.

Later...

AAS Journalist: Joe was in two bands and I have been communicating with some of the members. These guys did not know his politics, it was all about the music. I mean, we knew him for a number of years but he always wanted to talk about the Beetles.

Later...

AAS Journalist: Nobody that knew Joe saw this in him. He never said anything about his trouble with the IRS. He was obviously very distressed. He hid it well. Nobody really ever knows about the demons inside a man.

That is what I remember.

As you may or not be aware, the media here is keeping their distance from the family. The wife released a statement and that was it.

The hypocrisy is utterly stunning. Personally, I am glad to see them giving the family some space. Butt, if the man had really been a member of the Tea Party movement (as the liberal nut-jobs were concluding this morning) it would have been liberals shooting conservative fish in a barrel, nonstop dogging the family. Now, they are pushing the Tiger saga everywhere they can.

Auntie Em/Libertarian Woman said...

Libs can't stand it when one of their own breaks down.

And Tiger was probably hoping Stack WOULD turn out to be in the Tea Party.

off the reservation said...

Liberal Cover-up

Spent time with the liberal base in North Austin up through late last night. That place is utterly amazing.

Joe Stack? They want that to go away in a major way. Members of the Austin American Statesman are present and ready to do what is needed to maintain a lie.

First off, Joe had a facebook page. A great deal of correspondence between Joe and a number of the musicians up north. Large friend network. Years of being part of a band circuit, in with liberal fund sources, all with their own secrets.

Now, everybody is only going to say that they only ever spoke about music with the guy. They are in fear of the FBI. The media is to leave them alone and focus on one thing.

The media is concentrating on the victim, a former Viet Nam Vet. His proud service record. Services for his memorial. His children being hurt. This is what the media is to focus on. The goal? Forget that Joe ever existed. Make it go away. And as much as possible, get as many other topics in the news and make it go away.

This is the utmost hypocrisy. We have a large liberal group in this city coming together to cover up. Looks like stonewalling the FBI and manipulation of the media.

Plan B: Should more information come out on Joe Stack in the future, what next? The musicians in North Austin will have a special memorial performance for the victims. Anything to overwhelm the truth and maintain their front.

The fusion of performance art and prostitution.

off the reservation said...

Connection between IRS and musicians

Not many know this, there are musicians in the circuit in North Austin that have day jobs with the IRS. Because portions of the IRS work is seasonal, the musicians can use this to tour other parts of the country and Europe.

Also, a lot of cash changes hands in North Austin. Nobody takes checks. Nobody takes credit cards.

Fox guarding the hen house.

off the reservation said...

The house fire

Several people reported glass and other material "blown" onto houses several homes away from the main house fire.

I am not an arson specialist. Is it typical of a house fire to blow window glass up to 50 yards away?

butt neckid said...

YEP!!

coulda been sumpin' inside that blew or................

where was IVAN when the fire started????? delayed fuse?????

off the reservation said...

IVAN!!!!!!!

Well, the Austin folks might be able to reel in everyone and hide a dirty little secret. Unfortunately, they cannot reach as far as Norway:

http://www.myfoxaustin.com/dpp/news/local/Stack%27s-Daughter-Speaks-Out

Apparently, a Fox reporter here in Austin did not get the memo from the Austin American Stateman.

off the reservation said...

ok, just checked the larger news groups:

http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/joe-stacks-daughter-samantha-bell-calls-dad-hero/story?id=9903329

I am very slow today. ABC is going after it, too.

Others have had problems with the IRS and finally got their reprieve. However, it came after losing almost everything:

http://reformamt.org/

Some very powerful letters there of people that lost everything, because of the screwed up way our IRS works. For years these people suffered before a "band-aid" was applied to a hemorrhaging system. And the "band-aid" can be ripped off whenever it is politically propitious.

off the reservation said...

Read over the ABC news article. It has some free advertisement time for the Southern Poverty Law Center. Something is happening out there that might just impact on the revenue base for the entitlement programs they support.

I wonder if anyone has the full video of that interview with Bob Schulz of the "We the People Foundation." The way the comments are weaved around and edited, it almost sounds like the "anti-tax" movement is delighted by death and destruction. Just looking at the text from a liberal perspective.

off the reservation said...

Seen a lot of comments about Joe being a rich guy to own a plane. So, this guy Joe was rich and just a lunatic conservative.

Ok, now for some analysis:

Joe Stack was allegedly leasing the plane. Not the owner.

If you want to own a "share:" in San Antonio, Cessna 172, $3,000 down and $200 per month.

Here is a nice little baby her in Texas for under $15,000 (a Ford Ranger is about that much):

http://www.theplaneexchange.com/listman/listings/l0027.html

hmmm, I might think about buying that one!

And, here is another little baby for $13,000:

http://www.aircraftdealer.com/aircraft_for_sale_detail/Cessna_150_152/1971_Cessna_150/27037.htm

Given the 59" plasma TVs that wind up in homes that are in need of a bulldozer fix-up, this does not seem to be in the realm of "rich" people.

The airfields around Austin are filled with private air craft. Must be a lot of rich liberals in Austin. Why do liberals own air craft? I thought that liberals gave all of their income to the IRS and lived lowly meager lives?

Liberals are really good at slinging crap but never stand up to analysis.

Auntie Em/Libertarian Woman said...

ACK!!! I've had it with these Truthers! They are wrecking every chance we have of getting rid of the progressives in Washington.

whew, OTR be glad you can't get to boortz this morning

off the reservation said...

Where did you guys go? Are there black SUVs in your front yards?

Is that a black helicopter overhead?

off the reservation said...

Auntie Em,

I was afraid you had been taken away. Keep your head down. Butt, keep your ass down!

A lot going on in here and cannot get my laptop out until maybe tonight. Which topic is going radioactive on the Boortz site?

Auntie Em/Libertarian Woman said...

I told Ivan that the Truthers were going to kill any chance Ron Paul has of being elected, that he was a neocon for USING Ron Paul as a platform to further his truther agenda.

BAM, explosions occurred.

I'll probably write a post on the subject, it's getting a lot of coverage around the blogosphere.

This is just one.

http://www.redstate.com/erick/2010/02/12/vigilance-im-banning-birfers-truthers-and-groups-affiliated-therewith/

off the reservation said...

The whole birth certificate debate is moot. I do not engage in that discussion. Thanks to Hillary Rod-Ham Clinton, it diverts energy away from getting on track to find solutions.

Unfortunately, more people are getting fixated on the 9/11 stuff. I think that it is a by-product of the lack of trust in government. The bigger and more centralized government gets, the more people distrust it, and the more people disbelieve those things that come from government. I mean, damn it all, if you find yourself agreeing with Rosie O'Donnel, should you not at least think twice about what you are saying???

tshirt doctor said...

"Such a frontal assault on the state – like suicide bombers in the Middle East – must not be seen as an indictment of political systems. The media will go into its obligatory “damage control” mode and marginalize the man – Joe Stack – as a “kook,” a “terrorist,” or an “extremist,” another threat whose example can be turned to the benefit of the state. His lengthy, but inelegant, written statement explaining his anger at the government was quickly labeled a “diatribe,” a “rant,” and a “rambling screed,” to discourage others from reading his words and having their thinking infected thereby. Far safer to have this man thought of as “insane,” for what rational person would want to give his writing serious attention?"

you have unwittingly entered into the statist game of thought control.

read more. open your mind. :O)

http://www.blog2.tshirt-doctor.com/?p=7906

Auntie Em/Libertarian Woman said...

Doc, Doc, Doc, sorry bud but I'm afraid it is you that have bought the lie. He was insane. If this was the accepted method of rational humans to show their disappointment with government then we would have buildings falling every where.

You state: "you have unwittingly entered into the statist game of thought control" as if you are the arbiter of all that is reasonable.

No thanks, my mind is my own, don't make assumptions on my behalf. Stack was unstable and his actions should not be condoned. In my opinion he is not a hero, he is not a martyr.

off the reservation said...

Auntie Em,

The environment is changing. Consider the following:

Taxes are insane and more on the way. Social Security and Medicare are beyond broken. Election cycle after election cycle we wind up with one scumsuckin jerk after the next. Just saying that if you do not like what your official is doing vote in someone else does not matter. Always the same result.

That is insanity. We go to polls, hit buttons, punch chads, touch screens. We elect someone who says they will fix it and everything will be different. Nothing changes.

I will make a prediction, right here, right now. Next election cycle, our national debt will get bigger. Social Security will not get fixed. Medicare will not get fixed. More people will be on the government take. More people employed by the Central Government. People like me will pay more taxes and run further into financial ruin by an onerous IRS. The IRS body count will increase by 50%. The average federal government salary that was about $50k/yr in 2005, $75k/yr now, will be $90k/yr by 2012. It will not matter who you elect.

Auntie Em/Libertarian Woman said...

Yes, it's going to get worse, they would LOVE for everyone to be working for the government.

BUT the IRS gets it's power from Congress. So if anyone wants to take out their anger, that is where it should be.

From everything you've seen about Stack and the liberals in Austin, it was obvious, he was disturbed. I believe if it hadn't been this incident, it would have been something else. He was a time bomb waiting to go off. On someone or something.

Now I can see more incidents involving attacks on Congress.

Note for clarification: No Rachel Maddow, I'm NOT planning anything ok?

tshirt doctor said...

if that makes you feel better, then go for it. ;O)

Auntie Em/Libertarian Woman said...

Has nothing to do with how I feel, just basing it on statements from people that knew him.

And the fact that the IRS gets it's power from Congress. You can't argue with that.

If it makes the anarchist in you feel better to make him out to be a hero, fine for you. Just not here.

off the reservation said...

First off, I find it rather surreal that every time I open up this comment there is Jen's bright smiling face, full of hope and cheer.

What if Congress does not change or change its course?

Auntie Em/Libertarian Woman said...

LOL! She is a cheery person! You should hear her and I talking about religion HA!

And if Congress doesn't change, then it will come down to numbers.

How many Americans are dependent on the government and don't want to rock the boat, versus those of us who are tired of paying for it?

Are there enough of us to force a change? Do we have the nerve?

off the reservation said...

...and how much force is enough? I tend to work on the massive destruction side. I am not the guy you want working on a diplomatic solution.

Auntie Em/Libertarian Woman said...

Check! Make note: OTR for the heavy duty action.

BN for the diplomatic.... wait, what am I saying?

off the reservation said...

He he he he he he

Your turn Butt!

:)

tshirt doctor said...

i didn't call him a hero. all i wanted to do is get you off the propaganda bandwagon, and think for yourself. or be consistent. if you think he's insane for blowing up some building because he didn't agree with them, then that means our whole government is insane for they blow up buildings in Iraq and Afghanistan because we don't agree with them either.

or it's not insane for a group a men to blow up buildings because they got government issued uniforms on, and its insanity for civilian to do the same thing? or is that that they're foreigners dying when our governments doing it?

one of the reasons i got interested in the Libertarian Party is the fact that politicians were treated as ordinary citizens.

the propaganda meisters at Fox News want to label him as insane, therefore you won't delve into his reasons for this self-destructive act.

why do follow Fox News? Robert Muddoch voted for obama.

Auntie Em/Libertarian Woman said...

I really wish I could get you out of the "assumption" racket. You ASSUME I'm just repeating Fox stance on this. In reality I zip past every story on this issue (dvr most stuff) and don't listen to it on ANY channel.

So no, I'm basing my thoughts on reading his own words, words I have heard his "friends & associates" and really just a dose of common sense. Even using your lousy example of our military blowing up buildings, we don't put one of our own into a plane for a suicide run now do we?

Doc, you are the one being totally wacko on this. You may not say you are calling him a hero but you sure are acting like it. Talk about inconsistent!!!

Citizens have been mad at the IRS for what, about a hundred years now? How many planes have been used against them? hmm???

One does not consistency make. Think about it instead of only looking through your hatred of all things government except when it comes to health care. THAT is inconsistent.