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Now that the legal mumbo jumbo is outta the way...

Monday, February 8, 2010

Sept 11 - was it an inside job?

The "Truthers" as they are called, have been getting louder and louder. I have been directed to a documentary, "Loose Change - Final Cut", with Alex Jones involvement, as a source of proof.

Let's see what we find. There is a Part II, you can link on that to the right after viewing this.



First thing I make note of: the disbelief of finding passports of the hijackers, how could they possibly have survived. Yet here is a link to a story on Flight 93, where many personal items are found intact, of victims, not just terrorists. Page down to the bottom. Bibles, licenses, bandanas, all found in remarkably good shape. There are others stories of found items if you care to google them. The makers of the film, seem to only focus on items found of the terrorists.

I always have to question the motivation of individuals involved in any story. For instance, Sander Hicks, quoted liberally, was also responsible for "Fortunate Son", the unauthorized autobiography of George W. Bush. Hicks participated in a caravan trip to Washington DC for the inauguration of Barack Obama. Less than credible in my mind.

The Pakistani ISI Chief who supposedly wired Atta $100,000, that story is a little more iffy. But as this story shows, the U.S. authorities DID INDEED follow up on this and pressured the government of Pakistan. Unfortunately, it looks like the culprit and any hard evidence disappeared when the ISI Chief was "sacked".

OMG, Arlen Specter investigating Able Danger? Arlen from the Warren Commission? Well, that's fishy right there. Sorry, just had to throw that in there.

Okay come one now, you expect anyone to take it seriously when you have Cynthia McKinney talking about four planes not being intercepted????? Well, for one, all those 67 times they DID intercept, the planes were on course or very close and had just lost contact. The 9/11 planes were drastically off course so they were not where any jets would have been looking.

Cynthia McKinney? I almost stopped watching on that one.

I think we can all agree that our government, military and intelligence were pretty stupid for NOT planning for this scenario better. That shows stupidity, not duplicity. Moving on.

Stopped for now at 39:05, will resume.

Comments so far?

22 comments:

Ivan said...

I'd say there is a pretty darn good chance 9/11 was an inside job. Here's another interesting video about false flag terror in general. Notice the reoccurring theme in the video...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mkE94ayHlNg

off the reservation said...

Auntie Em,

What got this started? I only had a few brief moments to look at the Boortz site today. Did something get said there that I led to this?

Auntie Em/Libertarian Woman said...

Oh yeah OTR. Plus, dear Ivan has been after me to watch these videos. I have watched this one before, but now I'm dissecting it.

So far, not convinced. Course I haven't gotten to the more technical side yet.

I just want to put this to rest, one way or the other at least for myself. And maybe I'll help others.

Who knows what we'll find along the way! But I can only handle about half and hour to 45 min of it at a time, cause I'm stopping it quite often and going to find either supporting or denying reports.

off the reservation said...

I have gathered up "stuff" after catastrophic events (plummeting from satellite orbit, blown from a tank, etc) and there really is no "total" destruction. Some things will come out totally intact and relatively "untouched."

When there are situations where a fire is involved, most everything can get reduced to some amount of carbon. Generally with impact or detonation, you will get whole pieces of things left over. Generally, most of the pieces of the detonation device that are not consumed creating the detonation can be found at the point of detonation, also. If you want something "blown a ways," you need to set it some distance from the detonation source so it does not get sucked back to the source of detonation.

It does not surprise me that there were items found intact and appearing to be "untouched" at a crash site.

Auntie Em/Libertarian Woman said...

Yes, I think the Truthers would do well not to focus on that aspect too closely, they "infer" that it was only the terrorists belongings, passports, that were found, as if they were planted. But I'm finding items from passengers/victims were also found. So we can scratch that from the list of "things that make you go hmmmm".

Ivan said...

Our country has a history of getting us into wars based on false flag terror. This is a fact.

Ivan said...

Also I just wanted to mention that Loose Change is only a starting point. There is so much more out there. You should dig into the fact that nano-thermite was found in dust samples from the buildings which is a sophisticated explosive that is highly HIGHLY classified. You should also look into why building 7 was not mentioned in the official report and the fact that officials have had to change their story like 6 times because their explanation didn't jive with reality. You should also look into the fact that 6 out of the 10 men who WROTE the official report now say that it was all a coverup and that no investigation was done and that they were basically told what to put in the report. You should also look into the facts that are out there that some of the hijackers that are claimed to have died on the planes are actually still alive. You could then follow your leads to a man who worked for our government who actually issued the VISAs to the hijackers. He claims that he was forced by the CIA to issue the VISAs because the Saudis in question were infact agents working for the CIA. He can prove that he was infact in charge of the issuance of VISAs in Saudi Arabia at the time when the hijackers were at large. Then if you want to go further down the rabbit hole you can follow your leads and discover that the hijackers learned how to fly at military bases including the Naval Aviation school there in Pensacola. Heck an instructer there at the school said he recognized Muhammed Atta and it was his opinion that Atta was a CIA assett and was learning to fly for some kind of important CIA OP. I can go on and on and on and on and on. Like they say on X Files...the truth is out there. You just gotta know where to look and you can't suck at researching.

Auntie Em/Libertarian Woman said...

Well it's already been discussed many times how the terrorists got their training, they've had the instructors on tv talking about them, so that is no news.

I'm looking for hard data, not just what people say they were told to do, where is it in writing, because you KNOW that is the kind of proof needed if any further investigation will ever be launched.

When VISA's are issued, the applications are filed away, showing the signatures of not just the applicant but the issuing agent. If he was forced by the CIA and has no paperwork to back him up, then he could be making the whole story up.

Hard evidence Ivan, that is what you and your Truther groups are going to have to find. Testimony of individuals are not valid if they can't be substantiated. Sad, but true. That is true in ANY court trial or investigation. And THAT is the way you people need to start approaching this issue.

Off to find more.

butt neckid said...

okay....boys and girls....the TRUTH..... WILL NEVER BE KNOWN.....

it makes no difference today.....it happened and you can speculate all you want......point fingers.....jump up and down on the desk.....the TRUTH.....AIN'T....out there....

I have never been a fan of conspiracy theorys......they will make you crazy....

the first thing is you have to believe someone....and who can you trust??? mom? well she lied to you....no hair grew in your palm, and you didn't go blind....

I will go through the remaining years of my life with this in my mind.....MAYBE....butt it will not consume any of my time.....

inside job?? gubmint involved??? mossad(?) involved???....you and me will never know....

it will have to go into the file of unanswered questions....along with....
who shot kennedy...
where is the ark of the covenet..
is there a god...
where is osamabamas birth certificate....

IVAN...you have to quit teasing us with small tidbits...you are great pointing us to some of the info butttttttt.....

Ivan said...

All I can tell you is that if there were some way to bring all of the evidence that 9/11 was an inside job into one location that would do wonders for everyone trying to do research on the subject. Unfortunately at this point that central location does not exist. There are literally hundreds of inconsistencies and outright errors in the official story that cannot be explained away. All the signs out there point to a coverup at the very least. Further inspection reveals a much darker reality.

butt neckid said...

okay.....again......

THE TRUTH WILL NEVER BE KNOWN

Auntie Em/Libertarian Woman said...

Every government report ever issued, has inconsistencies. It's the government! Sorry, but seriously that does not surprise me.

I'm sure Alex Jones could find a way to bring it all together. You guys need to push him to do so. This could drag on for decades, just like JFK. Jim Garrison came the closest with his "Heritage of Stone", copies of documents, etc. He was killed for his effort.

No one is going to go out on a limb to open up a new investigation without hard evidence. I'm not saying it doesn't exist! My advice is just that is the ONLY way the truth will ever come out.

I've been doing some work on the thermite angle, but we'll get to that later.

Ivan said...

Now about the thermite discussion I refuse to believe ANY of the skeptics on this. I have chosen this position because if the skeptics can cry foul about it because they don't like the people who brought forth the information that is just tough. The evidence speaks for itself. The material should not even exist let alone be in the hands of these scientists. This material is a highly classified nano-thermite that has been sought after by militaries all over the world since 2001 when it was first announced they had it. One of the theories behind why this material was used was because the US wanted to sell it to the militaries of other nations and to companies like Black Water. It is speculated that 9/11 was a test of the material's capabilities on real world targets. Obviously if this is true then the test was successful. The thermite used in the World Trade Center was in a liquid form that could have been painted onto any surface in the building. Hell the people that did it might have been unaware what they were really doing. This form of thermite is a technical marvel. It ignites at a much lower temperature than normal thermite and burns hotter and faster. It burns so fast that it actually explodes which normal thermite does not. If you search for videos on youtube about nanothermite you will actually find a video that shows molten STEEL pouring out of one of the sides of the WTC. I emphasized STEEL because according to the official story it is not steel at all. The official story claims that it is molten aluminum from the engines of the planes. That is a LIE. Molten aluminum turns silvery in color when exposed to the air. This material from the WTC was burning firey yellow and red like molten steel does. This is absolute evidence that thermite was involved. Also first responders saw pools of molten metal at the base of all the WTC buildings. The NIST report has no mention of molten pools of steel even though NASA's own satalites show that there were infact temperature readouts from the base of the buildings that were right at about 2700 degrees which is the temperature we come to expect from steel melted by thermite.

butt the skeptic neckid said...

IVAN.....I know you know that any metal will melt given enough heat...

having been in the welding trade I have caused a lot of it to melt together....

mix avgas and other flammable material add lotsa ventilation and yeah molten metal is produced.....

this will be my last words on this subject.......

THE TRUTH WILL NEVER BE KNOWN....

butt I will read any HARD evidence that you produce....

Ivan said...

Anyways...I can see we will not get anywhere with this no matter what I show you. This video is not on topic, but is important none the less.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KH-zRrutJ_Q

Auntie Em/Libertarian Woman said...

Don't be so skeptical of the skeptics Ivan. That is your problem, no patience. I'm not through. And I promise to look at it all. Or as much as my tired brain can handle. But have faith cause my brain can actually handle more than most. Astronomy, Big Bang theory and a smidgen of quantum physics are a hobby.

butt neckid said...

AUNTIE..........A SMIDGEN?????....REALLY?????

Auntie Em/Libertarian Woman said...

Yes a smidgen is a universally accepted method of measuring quarks...

prove me wrong

LOL

butt neckid said...

hell I'm still havin' trubble with "A SKOSH..."it is a word from Japanese that has been bastardized by the yankee dogs...skoshi...which means a lil' bit.....

there's anuther one....lil' bit.....what the hell is a lil' bit???? is it bigger or smaller than a 'fer piece??

aaaw crap never mind......it was an inside job outsourced to........





code:glumove

off the reservation said...

Few comments.

I listened to Glenn Beck on Medina yesterday. Then I listened to the question/answer on 9/11 between Glenn Beck and Medina again. Then I listened to Medina retract/clarify her statement later in the day. Then last night, I listened to the whole Glenn Beck on Medina again.

Our federal government has a history of bad actors, having control of their little domains, doing really nasty things to groups of people.

Here is something that has been around for a long time. Was JFK killed as part of a conspiracy? Oswald on Kennedy, What do we know? There was a commission. What did we discover? What do **I** have in experience that I can draw on. I know from having trained in numerous mountainous areas, firing M-16 and M-24 weapons, blowing C4 (so I am acquainted with sharp and dull noise generators), that sounds bounce around a lot and echoes are surprisingly long lived. I know that snipers are most effective teamed up with a spotter. I know that I can compute the necessary data for a moving target, on a given course, with a given ammo, and a given rifle to "dial in" a solution to hit a moving target from any given elevation, given range, given wind correction (temperature and barometric pressure have some effect but minimal except in very extreme conditions).

What else do I know? The rifle that Oswald used was a 6.5x52mm Mannlicher-Carcano M91/38 bolt-action rifle, using a 160 grain round nose. During the Warren commission, an arguably correct setup was used to demonstrate that a proficient shooter could not have accomplished the two shots in the time given; however, a later CBS digitally-enhanced analysis showed that there was almost 8 seconds to make the three shots. Marksmen with no experience on this weapon, could take one that was properly sighted and repeatedly make two of the three shots within the required time, with one making all three. There is a reason that we put all of that instrumentation on a reasonably stable rifle. So that most people, under duress, with minimal training, can make good sniper shots, AS LONG AS they do everything by the numbers. AND, sometimes the simplest solution IS the solution.

Yes, I am aware of the reports on Oswald being a poor shooter with the Garand even though he scored 48 out of 50. That being said, if I take time with a highly-motivated individual and provide close instruction, I could have them making 800 yard shots on a 15-inch target with the proper equipment.

So what of the grassy knoll? What of the Warren commission? A number of stupid politicos with different motivations. I doubt that truth was at the top of every person's list. All of that being said, I doubt that Oswald acted with anyone else that day he killed JFK. I draw upon that conclusion based on my own experience! But, the conspiracies go on....

What about 9/11? We have had bad actors in our government, ALWAYS! We have had many, many, more STUPID people in government. Our government has conducted experiments on people in the past. Our government had people with intel about the Japanese attacking Pearl Harbor and it was not acted on. People had knowledge of those Saudi's that flew those planes into the World-Trade Center prior to it happening. AND arm-chair quarter backs, with 20-20 hind-sight make the world's greatest coaches come Monday morning.

Do I know anything, for certain, about 9/11???? No. Do I know that metal melts in the right environment: YES. In structures that incorporate steel that have burned we always change out the steel. A wood fire, given proper ventilation, will melt aluminum into ingot puddles. I have seen that. I have seen red iron bent that should not have bent in a wood structure fire. Was there thermite involved??? Nope.

I can feel reasonably certain that 9/11 was NOT an inside conspiracy US government plot. Not 100% certain, but I cannot come up with a plausible reason that what happened was something different than the prevailing opinion.

sfcmac said...

Ivan,
And all the other wackjob "toofers". Put down the Kool-Aid. I know it's difficult for you knee-jerk everything-is-a-government-conspiracy nuts to accept this but: Oswald was the lone gunman, there are no little green men, the levies were not blown up in Louisiana, and George Bush did not fly the planes into the World Trade Center, the Pentegon, or the field in Pennsylvania.

There isn’t a shred of credible evidence to back up these claims 9/11 was an “inside job.” The so-called "evidence" is a loony theory made up by people who are so full of hate for this country they want to believe it attacked itself on 9/11.

Here are CREDIBLE sources that have debunked every single Troofer claim:
Popular Mechanics published a comprehensive, detailed, investigative analysis which dissects all of the myths and idiotic claims surrounding the attacks and the subsequent damage.

Just one of the points covered:

FACT: Jet fuel burns at 800° to 1500°F, not hot enough to melt steel (2750°F). However, experts agree that for the towers to collapse, their steel frames didn’t need to melt, they just had to lose some of their structural strength — and that required exposure to much less heat. “I have never seen melted steel in a building fire,” says retired New York deputy fire chief Vincent Dunn, author of The Collapse Of Burning Buildings: A Guide To Fireground Safety. “But I’ve seen a lot of twisted, warped, bent and sagging steel. What happens is that the steel tries to expand at both ends, but when it can no longer expand, it sags and the surrounding concrete cracks.”

“Steel loses about 50 percent of its strength at 1100°F,” notes senior engineer Farid Alfawak-hiri of the American Institute of Steel Construction. “And at 1800° it is probably at less than 10 percent.” NIST also believes that a great deal of the spray-on fireproofing insulation was likely knocked off the steel beams that were in the path of the crashing jets, leaving the metal more vulnerable to the heat.

But jet fuel wasn’t the only thing burning, notes Forman Williams, a professor of engineering at the University of California, San Diego, and one of seven structural engineers and fire experts that PM consulted. He says that while the jet fuel was the catalyst for the WTC fires, the resulting inferno was intensified by the combustible material inside the buildings, including rugs, curtains, furniture and paper. NIST reports that pockets of fire hit 1832°F.

“The jet fuel was the ignition source,” Williams tells PM. “It burned for maybe 10 minutes, and [the towers] were still standing in 10 minutes. It was the rest of the stuff burning afterward that was responsible for the heat transfer that eventually brought them down.”

Link: http://www.popularmechanics.com/technology/military_law/1227842.html

Scientists, architects, and engineers, including those who built the World Trade Center, have spoken up to debunk these crazy-assed theories and the loonies who embrace them.

The buildings did not “implode”, they collapsed under the weakening of the structures resulting from the jet-fuel-based inferno. Those planes were chock full of flammable material which in turn, caused massive fires to spread throughout the buildings.

Bubba Clinton-era laws forbade the CIA and FBI from sharing information which might have thwarted Mohammad Atta and his band of Islamic thugs. Computer software at the airports identified many of the hijackers and threw up red flags before they even boarded the planes, but asinine political correctness prevented them from being scrutinized.

Note to the ‘troofers’: There’s so much real corruption, treason, and malefeaseance on the part of officials, the Democrats in particular, but all you tin foil hats can do is latch onto imaginary boogey men.

You delusional clowns either don’t have enough cognitive skills to sort fact from fiction, or you’re seriously off your meds. It’s probably the latter.

Auntie Em/Libertarian Woman said...

Thank you soldier!!!