Is the GOP trying to co-opt the Tea Party movement?
No, actually I think it's worse.
I really love the Tea Party movement, love that Americans are getting involved, getting educated. Would be great to see someone like Ron Paul be elected president. BUT the tea party people and Ron Paul all need to disavow themselves of the Truthers and Birthers. They are only going to bring down your movement. Think about how many of both groups are liberals. They have so much to gain from this continuing obsession.
I know that both groups have freedom of speech, but if they had any real evidence they need to move it from the court of public opinion to a real court. Get this settled once and for all or SHUT UP.
BUT you have to stop and think, the way the current system is set up, only one out of two parties can make it to the White House with the primary system we have. So instead of thinking the GOP is hijacking the tea party, how about the tea partiers are cleaning out the GOP and putting in people who really represent the platform.
I see it more as the birthers and truthers are the ones hijacking the tea party movement. You guys if you really want Ron Paul to win, you need to back off and disassociate yourself from him. Cause you are only doing him harm.
Neither RP nor the Libertarian Party back either one of these conspiracies. They recognize your freedom of speech but by your continued vocalization of these conspiracies alongside your support of RP you are causing him harm. Yeah he won the CPAC straw vote but did you also hear the boos? Those boos were because of the misconception that he is a Truther.
The above are snippets of arguments I've had today on Boortz and Facebook. And it's amazing how selfish the fringe group can be, cause they would rather shout their freedom of speech to the mountains than shut up for just a bit so that we can get something done.
If you have evidence, not some well crafted Alex Jones video, but REAL evidence, then by all means take it to court. Running your mouths on every board in the blogosphere does no one any good except alienating potential voters.
JFK assassination, Flat Earth Society, Moon Landing was Faked, get in line!!!!
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Pfft...
http://washingtontimes.com/news/2010/feb/22/inside-the-beltway-70128635/
The JFK assassination, the Global Warming hoax, and 9/11 were all orchestrated by the same people. They are the global elites. I am sorry that you are not able to make the connections that I have, but soon you won't have to. The Architects for 9/11 Truth are going to settle this business once and for all once they show the public the evidence of explosives found in the debris. They will also explain that it is literally impossible for fires to cause a steel building to collapse into its own footprint and they will show how the establishment has had to lie about the whole incident. 3 steel framed buildings fall due to fires all in the same day. Now I shouldn't even have to tell you how impossible those odds are considering how many steel framed buildings are out there. Just to add a little extra fuel to the fire (pun intended) the steel beams used in the WTC were some of the strongest thickest types ever constructed. Man oh man are people gonna be pissed when they find out the truth. I know your stance on 9/11 truth Joyce and I am not gonna get into this with you right now, but just like the Global Warming hoax the 9/11 lie will be exposed. It is only a matter of time. The evidence that 9/11 Truth has FAR exceeds the outright lies that NIST put out. Joyce I know I am right on this.
How did I know this Scott Brown would vote for Stimulus: The Sequel? Oh yeah now I remember...it is because he was propped up by the fake Right Wing...
http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSN2221899520100222
FYI the jobs bill WILL fail. Besides wasn't the first stimulus bill, the one that Beck supported and then was forced to tell the truth about, supposed to spur job growth? So is Beck supposed to be a Conservative, a Neocon, or a flip flopping actor? It is getting tough to tell these days who's side Beck is on. I mean one day he is saying Ron Paul is good and the next he is saying that Ron Paul is dangerous and his supporters are nutjob truthers. I mean come on.
Of course you believe you are right. But you keep missing the point.
Prove it. So far, you haven't.
And how you can watch the videos of the collapse, especially the newest ones, and NOT see the massive chunks of debris falling on the other buildings and shooting out sideways into the other buildings, then I guess you are blind!
Ivan, get real. Beck supported the spending for three days. Get it 3 days! And hey! Guess what!?! Beck is also the one who said to watch out for Brown!!!!
OMG
And btw, on boortz you remarked how RP has been on Alex Jones so of course he MUST be a truther!
Newsflash, he's been on Fox lots of times, so what does that mean? pssstt don't look now but he's been on Beck also.
OMG he's been on ABC!!!! He MUST be a Soros puppet then, right?
Let's see, how is it you put it: "oh come on".
You will never accept what I have to say. I will let the Architects for 9/11 Truth blow the lid off. Noone will be able to refute their evidence. I mean how can you refute actual physical evidence of nano-thermite? A weapon that is not even supposed to exist outside of extremely secure military labs. You know it would almost be funny how bad 9/11 Truth is gonna own the naysayers out there, but it isn't funny. Courts may seek the death penalty once they see the truth.
Anyways...poor McCain...
http://www.azcentral.com/news/election/azelections/articles/2010/02/22/20100222mccain-tarp0222.html
Speaking of McCain. If I remember correctly he was one of the men who are on record saying that the US needs another Pearl Harbor type event to unify us. Hmm...interesting.
Joyce you can't blame Ron Paul for wanting to get exposure. Besides Fox probably asked Paul to come on because he is making massive headlines these days.
Joyce...I have seen all the videos and I have never claimed there was no debris or explosions shooting out sideways. Infact that is one of the points that will be made by Architects for 9/11 Truth. They can show where the secondary explosions were occuring. They will be able to point out explosions being set off too early as well.
Sure and you will probably never believe even when it is proven to be false.
The debris and sideways action is what took out the other buildings.
I thought this was interesting.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cjq-yK2ak_U&NR=1
And frankly you are STILL not getting it. The Truthers and Birthers are going to ensure Obama a second win.
And ya'll don't seem to care!
NIST never claimed the fired melted the metal, they said it weakened the trusses as shown here.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oXxynEDpwrA
I would like to tackle one thing at a time here. I would like, just for argument, to assume that someone proves that President Barack H. Obama was born in Kenya. Now what? Please point out the goal and the process involved to achieve that goal.
I am not an attorney; however, I spent several semesters in Constitutional Law and Military Law. Every Article 15 that I administered stood. Every Article 32 investigation that I conducted ended with a result as I recommended.
Proving Obama is not a citizen is indeed dangerous ground. He's been in so long that Congress would be tripping over themselves to get the law changed. THAT would open the door for foreigners to become president. May be a stretch, but these days no one seems to consider the unintended consequences.
Great question OTR!
Next!
Architects, engineers and chemists never agree on projects in general, why would they agree on 9/11?
Architects are a place to start, but you are going to HAVE to get some engineers and chemists on board to get a clear picture. The metal structure did not melt, it was weakened, then pancaked from one to the other which is the puffs of smoke and popping sounds people mistook for additional explosives.
Okay, I did NOT intend for this post to become a debate over whether 9/11 was a conspiracy or not.
It is meant to point out how damaging the truthers and birthers are to the conservative movement.
I believe the birthers/truthers have been co-opted by liberals trying to discredit conservatives.
crap crap crap........
IVAN at times you seem to be very intelligent...and others you should put on the jacket that has the real loooong sleeves...you and I could probably have a lot of laffs.
until the lord almighty comes and whispers in your ear, if you believe in a supreme being, that it was an inside job......shhhhhhh!
I spent years in the welding trade doing a lot of different type of jobs. making metal bend twist stretch and shrink is what I did. don't you dare tell me that avgas, paper, wood etc cannot produce enough heat to cause a building to fall down. the towers were NEW types of construction/design. all buildings from your dog house to the PATRONIS (?) twin towers are in balance. upset that balance and.............
now run down to the bunker get your aluminum bonnet and get us a cuppla beers......
AUNTIE.....have you got the hots for ron paul????? does your hunny know?? have I not said it enuff that POLITICIANS ARE SCUM?!?! up front he looks ok.....butt.........damn it he's a fuggin' politician!!! good ideas come from all corners...you know that....we need to find a citizen to run for office, any office.
we are out numbered by dumbasses and scumsuckers....if our fourth estate was in fact our fourth estate then things may have not gotten this bad......
if I wasn't such a manly man I would sit down and cry...no WEEP for the nation I shed blood for.
I wouldn't shed a tear if 19 more stinkin' muslims flew 4 planes into D.C. while all the "IMPOTANT PEEPLE" were there.....not one! would I dance in the streets like the stinkin' muslims did????? well.....no. does that make me a turncoat?? no! it would clean all the sewage out of gubmint....we could start over with very tight reins on the scumsuckin'politicians that we put there........
now ever'buddy pay attention.....
WHEN YOU ARGUE WITH IDIOTS IT MAKES YOU AN IDIOT....
Yep! Because here is the present problem. Let us assume that someone does indeed find a birth certificate proving the President Obama was born in Kenya (I think that in order for the matter to go forward someone would have to find proof that refutes the Hawaiian proof), here is how I believe that it would play out.
Challenges would go through the courts. Eventually, the Supreme Court gets the matter. I believe that they would have to rule that there is a Constitutional remedy at hand -- Impeachment. Hey it is the American way! Pass the buck!!
Now we turn to the House of the US Congress to impeach. Would they? First, the House Judiciary committee gets the matter and mulls it over for a time. When they decide it is worth pursuing, then the committee will forge ahead with a formal inquiry. If the committee finds it worth recommendation to the House, the impeachment process goes forward, otherwise issue dies. Simple majority vote is required. Thus far it has happened four times. And if they do not impeach then what?
Assume that they do impeach, on to the Senate. Now the senate must formulate a procedure with rules. A special session of the senate is held, President with his attorneys, several select House members serving as prosecutors, Chief Justice presiding, jury of 100 senators. Then the jury meets in private session. In open session they would voice their verdict. A FULL 2/3 of the senate is required to convict. Would they find him? Think about it. Can we find 66 senators willing to convict Obama? Of what? A treason, bribery, high crime, or misdemeanor.
So, this matter does not fall under treason or bribery, does it?
So, we are left with high crime or misdemeanor. The current test is real criminality (breaking the law), abuse of power, or violation of the public trust. Even then we are talking about exceeding constitutional authority (which he may have already done but many presidents have), behavior grossly incompatible with the office (leading the Dali Lama through garbage bags out the back door?), or using the office for personal gain.
Removing President Obama through this method is largely political. There is far greater chance of removing him from office through the general election and we should focus on that. This birther thing is a total waste of time and effort and we need to move on to getting someone else voted in come 2012.
Word Verification: goatina
LOL BN you are a hoot! Ron Paul may be the ONLY politician I trust.
And since they won't let us vote directly on issues, we have to work within this representative system.
Voting directly on issues would be fine with me, but Americans are lazy, they would just ignore the ballot and go back to watching American Idol.
ARE IVAN AND IVANROBERTS ONE IN SAME.IF SO,SON WE'VE HEARD ABOUT YOU.AND WE'RE LOOKIN FOR SOME NEW PEOPLE.YOUR WELCOME TO THE NEXT MEETIN.IFIN YOU GOT ALL YOUR TEETH,THAT BE A BONUS.WE CAN USE YOU UNDERCOVER TO INFILTRATE CONSERVATIVE HOT SPOTS.THE BIRTHERS/TRUTHERS HAVE BLOWN THEIR COVER,SO WE COULD USE YOUR HELP,THINK ABOUT IT AND GET BACK TO ME.
Yeah it appears Ivan has started a blog or is finally using the ID from the one he has. But we don't have access to it.
Hey Ivan, we'll come visit if you open the door!
Joyce the 9/11 Truth Movement has already said that the steel "can" deform when sufficient heat is applied. Now you have to remember that firemen and other first responders said they saw pools of molten steel under the WTC for weeks. NASA has even taken thermal scans of the site and the temperatures were perfectly in line with what the first responders claimed. There WAS infact molten steel despite NIST's claims that none was present. I choose to believe the dozens of first responders before I will believe NIST which has gone out of its way to lie to the American people. Their story has had to change multiple times because their version doesn't sync up with reality. Not only is there proof of nano-thermite, but if you watch the videos of the buildings you can actually see explosions going off early before the building was brought down. Not only that but you can actually see molten steel flowing from one of the sides of the buildings. I am sorry, but that is evidence of what the Architects for 9/11 Truth has been claiming. It is VIDEO proof. Now don't even get me started on building 7 cause that right there is so blatant I don't even know where to begin. To believe the official story in its entirety the way it is currently is pure madness. I mean look around you. Put aside all that 9/11 Truth has uncovered over the years and just ask yourself if you truly believe your government. According to 6 out of the 10 men on the 9/11 Commission their efforts to conduct a real and honest investigation was completely thwarted by the FBI, CIA, and Dept of Justice. That BY ITSELF is reason enough to reinvestigate. If I remember correctly our government has been crapping on its citizens for a very long time. Why do you seem to believe that they wouldn't kill 3,000 people in order to make hundreds of billions of dollars fighting wars in the Middle East. You know these people are greedy or you should. Why do you give them a pass? They have a track record in history of committing false flag terror to get the US engaged in wars. This is on record. They call people like you and me domestic terrorists. I don't quite understand why you still have faith...it almost seems like you have a case of Stockholm Syndrome.
And I don't have a blog just a google ID. The comments I posted with the ID were done from my house where my email is sync'd with my web browser. That's it.
I would like to ask an honest question to the naysayers. How many times in history have fires brought steel framed buildings?
Please research this and get back to me. For extra credit try and determine the odds of 3 steel buildings coming down in one day within 12 hours of each other. This question will frustrate you if you are a denier because if you answer it will make YOU look like a conspiracy theorist.
one more thing IVAN....let those lil' green men out of your basement. they need a lil' sunshine and maybe a cold beer wouldn't hurt all of ya.......
I knew you wouldn't attempt to answer that question. I love the cheap shots though.
AUNTIE....sorry for all the F#*KS...IVAN turned me into a babblin' idjit...
ooooooow, why did you shoot me wit' that tranq dart honey???????
I'll talllllllk toooooooooooo ya'llllll lat............
code:redowe
Oh give it a rest Ivan. Stockholm syndrone Sheesh. I hear that every time I get into an argument with you people. Is that part of the "talking points" they hand out????
I told you, this is not the place to discuss the merits of the conspiracy, just the premise of the Truthers damage to the conservative cause. So drop it. I will start deleting comment and oh yeah waiting on you saying I'm just afraid of hearing the truth.
Truthers are being used by people with an agenda, who are not to be trusted anymore than our government. So which one shall I believe? They are both full of it.
If office funiture causes steel framed skyscrappers to fall into their own footprints then why do demolition teams spend so much time rigging up buildings if all they have to do is leave all the old office furniture and pour some gas on it and light a match? I mean that should be easier after 9/11 since now fires can bring down enormous skyscrappers.
here's your answer....
how many times?? once. that I know of. and I don't intend to waste time looking for answers to questions that can not nor will ever be proved true or false.....
THE TRUTH WILL NEVER BE KNOWN....
odds 19:4.....muslims:airplanes
and those weren't cheap shots.....they cost points on my F#*K-O-METER......
now whats in those offices????
I can't change your mind because it is already made up. I am not aware of any talking points, but I do believe there should be a very good reason for you to ignore the information I have presented. It is not made up. It is factual. It's not like I woke up this morning wanting to deceive someone about 9/11. The truth is that I know my facts and most deniers don't. That is all I am going to say on this subject. There is no need to delete anything cause I am done.
one can only hope....
Ivan,
"The Architects for 9/11 Truth are going to settle this business once and for all once they show the public the evidence of explosives found in the debris."
Really? Don't tell me, They've got "evidence" that George W. Bush pressed a remote control button in the Oval Office and brought down the towers. And flew the plane into the Pentagon and the field in Pennsylvania. They've also got "evidence" that Extraterrestrials kidnapped Lee Harvey Oswald, with the cooperation of the CIA, and planted a device in his brain that programmed him to assassinate JFK.
This is you and your friends:
"Laugh at me now, but WE'VE GOT PROOF"....BWHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAAA!!!
And they’re coming to take me away ha-haaa
They’re coming to take me away ho ho hee hee ha haaa
To the funny farm
Where life is beautiful all the time
And I’ll be happy to see those nice young men
In their clean white coats
And they’re coming to take me away ha haaa!!
Take your meds, dude.
BTW to stay on topic...
It won't be Birthers or Truthers that will ruin the Republicans taking back the White House. It will be Republicans ignoring people like Ron Paul and promoting people like Sarah Palin and Rick Perry. The problem is that despite the fact that most Conservatives are starting to catch on to Ron Paul they will still ultimately choose the mainstream nominee. I would love for Ron Paul to get the nomination, but it would upset me greatly if he couldn't get elected because freedom loving Republicans can't get over the Truthers and Birthers exercising their first amendment rights. I mean I support your right to call me a Truther even though I believe that is a derogatory name. I support your right to call me that even though the name originated from a CIA thinktank and not from the mouth of any normal average citizen that disagrees with the message of the movement. I am not sure the origin of the name Birther. I have no evidence that it came from within the government like the term Truther. I just think it is interesting that the CIA has classifications for people that disagree with government. I guess at the end of the day I am just glad that I live in Georgia and I am not going to have to register with the state for disagreeing with the government like in South Carolina. Did you guys here about that one? They are saying they might require people that are upset with the goverment to register with the state and if you don't you can be locked up for like 10 years or something.
SFC MAC you don't have the facts on your side. I am not crazy. If Joyce will allow us I will give you a good opportunity to refute the information I have presented. I know you can't because NO ONE has. That is why I have chosen the information I have presented. There is no way you can refute it without looking crazy. If you can refute it with evidence to back it up you will have done what literally NO debunker has done before.
Ivan I am all for Ron Paul, but how do you get past the 270 electoral vote requirement to win? No third party will ever get past that. So my whole point in this discussion is, we need to clean out the garbage from the Republican machine, take it back for the people. And RP is the catalyst for doing that.
I personally don't like the electoral college system, what are the chances of changing that?
Truther is a bad name? Hmmmm, didn't know that. So what is acceptable?
Ivan, you can take the conspiracy argument back to the original post I had a couple of weeks ago.
Let's keep this one at least partially on topic k?
This one:
http://libertarianwoman.blogspot.com/2010/02/sept-11-was-it-inside-job.html
okay IVAN I am going to type real slow so you can unnerstan'.......
the office furnature was what caused the puddles of molten metal...
you really must.....
1. get professional help...
2. take your medications on time...
3. get professional help from a female sex worker....it will help relieve some of that pressure....and clear up your skin.
4. stop watching Jones.....
5. get professional help from a female sex worker a cuppla more times.....
6. com'on down to the BUCKET O' SUDS and have a cold one with us....we'll buy.
7. get that professional sex workers phone number....
8. get a bigger hat...
9. that sex worker....she got frien's???
code:mundeli
if someone or some group is getting attention then the asswipes and scumsuckers will climb on board......
we all know it happens all the time. the only way to prevent it is....................
well crap ya can't......
there aren't enuff peeple that want to do their homework to make the best choice out of all the crappy scumsuckin'politicians.....
I know I'm guilty of it some times....I make snap decisions all the time and I have a pretty good average on being right.......
I would give you 2 glaring 'xamples butt that would be redundant........
bn, shush!!!
Then we just need to get the voting on issues down to our level more!
....sigh.... I wish
Okay BN then why does NIST deny there was molten metal of any kind at the base of the buildings.
Maybe cause it was no longer molten???
Ha!!
STOP IT, now you've got me doing it again.
Just had a long drive through the snow in central Texas. Spent about three hours in the snow and ice. Global Warming?!?!?!?!? AAAAaaahhh!!!
Ok, got that off my chest.
IVAN
I just read through the posts. Please take some down time. Personally, I go listen to classical music and turn off the lights for a while. There are people here trying to give you some friendly advice. Yep, it is pretty hot in here at the moment. Ivan, you will not make any headway with anyone while everybody is angry and in protection mode. AND, you may never make any headway with us.
The important thing to keep in mind is like you, we want our country back. We want those ass-holes in Washington to leave us alone so we do what we do best. Live our lives, make a big difference in our local communities, and help make this country great from the ground up.
Keep in mind that if you are right, that a large massive government will never allow for an honest investigation. So, let us all work together to reduce that massive monster. It will take a lot of hard cooperative work, it will take time, and it will take long term determination. Then, we can work on the rest of this. If the deficit runs away then none of this will matter. You will not matter, I will not matter.
http://web.archive.org/web/20040627142700/eastandard.net/headlines/news26060403.htm
FYI - Fuel for the birthers out there :) It does make you go HMMM. I am not sure if Obama is Kenyan. I would bet money he is a Muslim though.
OTR I completely agree. Believe it or not I don't live conspiracies 24/7. I have a very busy lifestyle and this to me seemed like a good hobby. I could do without the strange phone calls, but I know that when I poke around in places I am not supposed to someone is going to say something. I am kinda like a bloodhound when it comes to tracking down leads. I don't like to give up on anything and I feel like 9/11 was so significant that I just can't give up on my fellow Americans like that. I hope that my quest for answers ends well.
OTR I completely agree. Believe it or not I don't live conspiracies 24/7. I have a very busy lifestyle and this to me seemed like a good hobby. I could do without the strange phone calls, but I know that when I poke around in places I am not supposed to someone is going to say something. I am kinda like a bloodhound when it comes to tracking down leads. I don't like to give up on anything and I feel like 9/11 was so significant that I just can't give up on my fellow Americans like that. I hope that my quest for answers ends well.
my fella 'mericans........when it comes to gubmint and truth.....no such f#*kin' thing.......
TIM.....your last sentence....no bet.
i am afraid i'm like ivan in the fact that i'm concerned about "conspiracy" theories. my conspiracy facts/theories are economic in nature. and they can be discovered by looking at the news with you government issued propaganda glasses not on.
i've been investigated that for some months now, but i found a man who has it down pat. if you want to read it go here.
I: Casualties of Economic Terrorism, Surveying the Damage
EXACTLY Doc, which is WHY we have to quit sabotaging the very groups which give us the best chance of shaking the chains of the elitist control.
You always assume that if people don't agree with your extremist views that they just HAVE to have "government issued glasses" on. Or that they are Fox puppets. Which is it? Can't have it both ways.
Media is never perfect, which is a real shame since it is their job to look after the people. But at least Fox will ask some tough questions, not always the questions I would ask, but certainly better than any other source. Then I come here and ask what I would ask. Unfortunately, I get not response from the government!!!!
But then, no one does.
And in all your rantings, you don't offer a solution.
That reminds of something I heard before. I think that it was one of those management "zingers"
It is not really a problem if you do not have a solution.
Word Verification: blead
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